Remigration debate with Post-Fascist Post
Original Post (O from now on)
Source
// Me restacking the quote:
"if European countries today would start engaging in mass remigration, that they would at least hurt themselves as the USA did in the 1930s. And in the worst case, European countries would descend into the same vicious cycles of economic collapse and ethnic hatred as the ones many African countries have been trapped in for decades. I can understand, why some wicked people in Washington or Moscow would cheer on for this, but this is nothing any real European patriot should wish for."
Reply 1 (from now on R)
I have full confidence that Europe can make a success of remigration. The Africa example is ridiculous because it’s Africa and they’re experts at making things go to shit
O1
(1)
While your Expert take removed most of my worries, it still seems that you ignore the “good” scenario of the US in the 1930s in your high level analysis.
Beyond basically saying that Africans are bad at everything, which is retarded, you also did not point out any distinguishing factor which would somehow make mass expulsion more beneficial this time.
As a last point, isn’t it weird how both the US and Russia, which both currently see Europe as an adversary, are eagerly egging on the political forces that push for this?
(2)
Also, you don’t seem so sure here (Screenshot of an earlier post of his):
"Listen man I completely agree with you. I’ve always regarded remigration as a rightwing version of communism. I’ve allowed myself to day dream about it but no more. Genocide is more likely. What the actual workable landing point is, I don’t know. I’m still thinking"
R2
(1)
I think it’s retarded to look back at a scenario from almost 100 years ago and expect you’re going to get a like for like outcome. The world and the economy have changed. Those examples need to be studied and taken into consideration during the planning process but to treat them as conclusive proof that there’s no possible way of make remigration work in a different form is quite simply inbred level reasoning.
I never said Africans are bad at everything. They’re good at basketball. They’re good at throwing spears. They’re inventive, if not convincing, with their composition of email scams. Europe is better than Africa in most things, which is why I think there’s little to be learnt from Ghana’s experience with remigration. If you need me to list those things I’d suggest you check if your parents are siblings.
Russia is Europe’s adversary because Europe has consistently made an adversary out of Russia. Europe acts like Russia is a foe waiting to be beaten and indulges the moronic fantasies of jumped up Baltic chihuahuas like Kaja Kallas that Russia can be dismantled into numerous democratic republics. Instead of pursuing detente with Russia, Europe has sided with non-entities like Estonia because of its nonsense fucking principles like self-determination which are thought up in places like London, Paris, and Brussels then copy+pasted into wildly different circumstances and expected to function like universal laws of nature rather than political constructs thought up by man. Europe’s problems with Russia can be solved through realpolitik.
As for America, this is how things are at the moment. That could change within a few years. But it’s laughable that you think that America’s grand plan to bring down Europe is encouraging us to deport illegal third world primitives.
(2)
Yes, I think remigration is too idealistic to work. Certainly the form of remigration that people on my end of the political spectrum fantasise about. I can tolerate Chinese migrants if it means no more pakis. So this is a much more limited form of remigration because I just don’t think you ever get to mass removals. As I pointed out in the post you screenshotted, you’ll sooner get to mass murder. I’m much more animated by the possibility of restricting citizenship than arguing for remigration because the leap is much smaller. Unlike others on the far-right I think about process and what’s achievable rather than idealistic outcomes. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t like the idea of remigration or think that it shouldn’t be tried because of an African version enacted 60 years ago. I practice pessimism of the intellect, but optimisim of the will.
O2
I'll first respond your point about remigration being unrealistic, because you don't make any sense here. First I repost a quote from an article that makes an argument about remigration being detrimental. You respond by saying that you're confident that "Europe can make a success of remigration". I respond by showing that even you don't think it will work. Now you're back to saying that it you like the idea of it and that the argument raised against it was wrong, in which case that should have been your first reply. Either you think Europe can make it work or you don't, there is no third secret option.
Now, to the more substantive conversation: Sure, you can make the argument that relying on the Ghana or USA example is wrong, but I'll need more proof on that than simply saying "Africans are bad at this thing" or “the world has changed”. The government policy of Ghana and the US generated an economic response which is explainable through standard economics, as is explored in the article I'm quoting from which you probably haven't read. You haven't demonstrated why it would be any different using actual economic arguments, opting to rely purely on vibes, but what else should I expect from a "shitposter"?
On Russia, Europe tried to play nice. We made big economic (Nordstream 1 and 2) deals with them, made ourselves dependent on their oil and gas and only lightly sanctioned them even as they illegally annexed the territory of a sovereign nation in 2014. Even then, they decided that they actually want the whole of Ukraine. You can't "pursue detente" with morons who insist on pillaging their neighbours, while openly calling for your civilization to be destroyed and your cities to be nuked. The only way to stop these guys is to beat them, "realpolitik", as you say.
You can shake your head and call it laughable, but you admit that the Americans see Europe as an adversary and they explicitly say in their NSS that they want to push the parties that are on the remigration train. It might not be just for the reason that remigration makes Europe weaker, but it's probably part of it.